[tulip] Header Files and Compilation Instructions

[Dana Lacoste]

OK, I don't subscribe to linux-kernel because i don't want
to put up with this kind of flamewar.  That's why kernel traffic
exists (for flamewars and people unfairly picking on Donald :)

SO, something has to be resolved.  Although I like seeing SOME
traffic on this list, too much of the same questions is too much :)

Here is the situation, as I see it.  I'll try not to rant about
the problems I have with compiling glibc or working with different
kernels, i'll just stick to the main points :

1 - glibc requires linux kernel headers.  Because applications
    are tightly coupled to glibc, for maximum stability's sake
    _applications_ should be compiled against the same header
    files that glibc uses.  For this reason (and this is what
    came up on linux-kernel) systems that are expected to
    compile applications should not use the symlink method of
    linking the kernel header files, but should have a fixed
    directory having the right files.

2 - kernel modules (DUH! :) and other kernel-specific tools aren't
    really concerned with glibc, they're concerned with the kernel,
    and they MUST be compiled against the header files from the kernel
    they're going to be used with.  (Although I know in theory it's
    not REQUIRED sometimes, it's just plain sensible :) so to compile
    the tulip module (or any other kernel module for that matter)
    you should make sure you're linked against the right headers.
    (which should be as simple as making sure they're in /usr/src/linux
    [or that there's a symlink there to the right place] and doing
    -I/usr/src/linux/include/linux or whatever in your CFLAGS env variable)

Is there any way we can document this on the scyld website?  maybe we
can take this offline and I'll volunteer to write it out if people send
me all the data that needs to be addressed (I don't have or want RH7.0,
so i'd need input :)

this is a problem that all of linux faces, not just redhat, but as far
as i can tell, redhat goofed in a couple of ways with RH7.0 :

- The default gcc installed is a development release, not accepted or
  expected to be used as a general release.  Thus, 'kgcc' must be used
  instead. This is perfectly normal practice for kernel developers,
  however MOST 'real' hackers aren't having problems here, and this isn't
  documented in a lot of places.

- The kernel headers installed by redhat are theoretically the same that
  they compiled glibc with (i'll assume they are :) but they don't include
  by default the kernel headers for the default kernel they install.  this
  means that anyone who tries to compile a kernel module from source will
  run into a roadblock, and one that's NOT easy for a newbie to understand.

So does anyone have a total solution?  i.e. if i take a CLEAN, unmodified
RH7.0 install, what do I have to do to make sure I can compile the scyld
modules?  what packages do I have to make sure I have, what changes do
i have to make, that kind of thing.

I think that 90% of this can be solved by making sure that everyone has done
some basic research before they begin.  Things like "what's your kernel
version?"
should never be answered with "6.2" or "5.1".  And, IMNSHO, "2.2.16-22" is
also
a COMPLETELY invalid answer.

maybe someone (i.e. a redhat user) should compile RPMs on a regular basis that
we can simply point people to?  Then the mailing list can go back to dealing
with
the 8365th revision of the Linksys LNE100TX. :)

(trying to get productive discussion going on instead of flamewars between
people who aren't having problems but can't decide on how best to help those
who are having problems :)

----
Dana Lacoste
Ottawa, Canada